Emails from Christian apologists: 14


    I received an email saying:-
'I am a Bible and Greek/Hebrew scholar. Every one of your "Bible contradictions" are totally wrong. I first tried to look at something I would totally recognize...I would think you would have the brains for the one about 'David slays Goliath' then 'Elhanan slays Goliath'.
If you would clearly read 2 Samuel 21:19, it says: 'And there was again a battle in God with the Philistines, where Elhanan, the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew THE BROTHER (notice the BROTHER) of Goliath.......
I also was laughing hysterically at the stupidity of your first 'contradiction' about God created animals then man, then man and then animals. You obviously are stupid when it comes to English my friend. Read your second reference. (In case you didn't know, Genesis 2:18-19. It reads: 'And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help fit for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every foul of the air...." etc, etc. Go to verse 21...It reads 'And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept. And he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof, and the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man'.
Verse 19b-20 is talking about the animals that had been created earlier. Notice the 'out of the ground that the Lord God formed every beast...'. It is simply talking about the animals that were created from the same ground. Now I honestly don't have time for all of this, but it is complete trash. I recommend you either take some English lessons and some reading lessons and go back and take a look at your references...Either that or you can take your site down'.

    The unnamed writer who declares that he is 'a Bible and Greek/Hebrew scholar'(!), he chooses not to give his name or qualifications, or from where he obtained the latter, believes that infantile discourtesy is the best approach, indicating straightaway that rather than considering the matter objectively, he has gone on the defensive. It is also unclear why he believes that 'English lessons' should be of any assistance in this matter. Ironically, this 'scholar' has made fundamental errors that a child would not make.
    His first objection is to a contradiction I mention elsewhere
David slays Goliath - 1 Sam 17:4,7,50
Elhanan slays Goliath - 2 Sam 21:19
    He argues this is not a contradiction by saying 'If you would clearly read 2 Samuel 21:19, it says: 'And there was again a battle in God with the Philistines, where Elhanan, the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew THE BROTHER [notice it was the BROTHER] of Goliath''.
    I must personally view the writer's statement that he is 'a Bible and Greek/Hebrew scholar' as suspect (if not hilarious) as is unaware that the words 'THE BROTHER' are only in a few versions, e.g., the King James, because it is a deliberate insertion by some translators; this is made clear by being printed in italics, which is the translator's way of advising the reader that the words are not there in the original manuscripts, but have been inserted there by the translators for their own reasons (in this case to try and avoid the contradiction).
    Any quality Bible commentary will confirm this and yet the writer who claims to be 'a Bible and Greek/Hebrew scholar' is apparently unaware of this and is using the feeble attempt by translators of a unreliable version to overcome an obvious contradiction (by inserting extra words) to argue his own case.
    As he is using an unreliable version of the Bible, he is unaware of the significance of italicized words, and has not even bothered to consult Bible commentaries, this must obviously leave one in serious doubt about his claimed 'scholarship'. Using the The International Bible Commentary, (Marshall, Pickering/Zondervan, 1986), edited by F. F. Bruce, (an indisputable conservative Christian), there is firstly absolutely no reference to the words 'the brother' (simply because they are an addition to the original text) and secondly, Bruce admits of 2 Samuel 21:19:
'Elthanan slew Goliath the Gittite'. This statement clearly raises the question of its relation to the account of David's victorious combat with Goliath
    The Bible scholar's (!) second objection is to the contradiction I cited elsewhere
God creates animals and then man - Gen 1:25-26
God creates man and then the animals - Gen 2:18-19
    The 'Bible scholar' says:
'Verse 19b-20 is talking about the animals that had been created earlier. Notice the 'out of the ground that the Lord God formed every beast...'. It is simply talking about the animals that were created from the same ground'.
    The writer has not grasped that the Genesis 1-2 narratives include two completely different myths, written by two completely different authors. The writer says that Gen 2:19b-20 refers to the animals created earlier and we should note the words 'out of the ground that the Lord God formed every beast...' in Gen 2:19. How this resolves the contradiction is not explained although the best that the author can offer is that 'it is simply talking about the animals that were created from the same ground' (How an 'it' can 'simply talk' is also unclear!).
    But this is all shown to be nonsense by Professor Helmer Ringgren:
'The systematic account of the creation...is found in Genesis 1-2. Tradito-historically, of course, this account is not homogeneous, but rather consists of two distinct narratives, the first of which Genesis 1:1-2:4a is ascribed to P[riestly author], and Genesis 2:4b-2:25 belongs to Y[ahwistic author].
The Yahwistic account begins by describing a dry desert without plants in which life is brought through water. Then Yahweh forms a man from the dust of the earth ...only then does Yahweh create the animals....
The so-called Priestly account in Genesis 1, which is relatively late, is completely different. Here everything is well ordered and reduced to a local system..[the fifth/sixth days, birds and fish are created and] 'on the sixth, the creation of land mammals and of man'. (Helmer Ringgren, Israelite Religion (London: SPCK, 1981), pp.105,106).
    Therefore, once again we encounter the usual ignorance, lack of reading and wild claims by Christians who are ignorant of the book in which they claim to believe.


    I also received the following two questions from a student who was undertaking a project on creation and evolution. He said he was not a Christian and this presumably accounts for his intelligent questions unlike the nonsense written above.

>'In your contradictions you say:
>'God creates animals and then man - Gen 1:25-26
>God creates man and then the animals - Gen 2:18-19
>but the Bible says 'The Lord God said, 'It is not good for
>the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him''. Gen. 2:18
>Isn't this refering to Eve? "But for Adam, no suitable helper
>was found." and then God makes Eve.(20)
>The Bible also says 'Now the Lord God HAD formed out
>of the ground the beasts of the field and all the birds >of the air[...]'
>How does this say that God creates man then animals?'

I replied:
    'The point here is that when God speaks in Gen 2:18 about creating woman, according to what is said earlier in Genesis 1, he had already done this (in Gen 1:27 when Adam and Eve are created together). Moreover, when God speaks about creating animals in Gen 2:18, they had already been created according to Gen 1:24-25.
    These contradictions are caused by the Genesis creation narrative actually being two completely different narratives. The first was written by the P ('Priestly') school which is Gen 1:1 - 2:4. This gives the picture of a structured, well-ordered 6-day creation, culminating in God creating both man and woman in Gen 1:27: 'so God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them' (Gen 1:27).
    God then tells them to reproduce (Gen 1:28) and live on a vegetarian diet (Gen 1:29-30). The narrative concludes with saying God's work was 'good' (Gen 1:31).
    After this, the second narrative, written by the J or Y ('Yahwist' or 'Jahwist') school, then begins at Gen 2:4. This presents a creation of the world ('6 days' are not mentioned) and it is less well-structured, e.g., there are no plants or rain (Gen 2:5). God then creates man (Gen 2:7) (with no mention of a woman) and places him in Eden (Gen 2:8) and only then creates trees (Note that in the Gen 1 narrative, God creates trees on the third day (Gen 1:12) before he creates man in Gen 1:27).
    The Genesis 2 narrative continues its account referring to the land in which the first man finds himself (Gen 2:10-17). God then feels sorry for the man and creates animals for company (Gen 2:19). However, in the Gen 1 narrative, God creates animals in Gen 1:24-25 and only after this does God create the first humans (Gen 1:26-27).
    (In fact God creates birds and sea creatures on the 5th day - Gen 1:20-22, and all the other animals on the 6th day - Gen 1:24-25. This,as stated, is then followed by humans being created - Gen 1:27).
    The Gen 2 narrative continues by relating that at this point, only after creating the first man in Gen 2:7, and after creating vegetation (Gen 2:9) and then the animals (Gen 2:18-19), does God create the first woman in Gen 2:21-23. This is all in complete contrast to the order supplied in Genesis 1, and also contradicts Gen 1:17 that has the first humans being created at the same time.
    So to summarize:
    Gen 1 has a well-ordered creation in 6 days with vegetation being created on the 3rd day (1:11-12), then flying and marine animals on the 5th day (1:20-23), other animals on the 6th day (1:24-25), and then both man and woman together (1:26-27).
    However, in complete contrast, Gen 2 has man created (2:7), then vegetation (2:9), then animals (2:18-19), and only then is woman created (2:21).'

>'My second question is that you say:
>'Noah takes 7 pairs of each type of animal onto the ark - Gen 7:2-3
>Noah takes one pair of animal onto the ark - Gen 6:19'.
>But is the first text incorrect? In my bible, it saids 7 kinds of CLEAN animals,
>because Noah would later use a few for sacrifices after the flood subides'.

    'Gen 7:2-3 has Noah being told by God to 'take with you SEVEN PAIRS of all CLEAN animals...and A PAIR of the animals that are NOT CLEAN'. Whereas in Gen 6:19, God tells Noah to just take ONE PAIR of EVERY living thing, i.e., there is no distinction between ritually clean and unclean animals. Therefore Gen 7:2-3 has two types of animal and depending upon whether 'clean' or 'unclean', seven pairs or one pair.
    However, in Gen 6:19, it is just one pair of everything - seven is not mentioned, nor is there any differentiation between 'clean' and 'unclean'.
    In fact this is wholly anachronistic as the ritual purity laws about animals either being 'clean' and 'unclean' did not arise until much later.'